“I’m done apologising”: EMMMA on no longer being the secondary character
Connecticut-raised, London-based and currently on the road with Suki Waterhouse across the US, EMMMA is busier than she’s ever been – and that’s fine by her.
Photo: Jonathan Wolpert
Currently mid-tour with Suki Waterhouse, Russian Roulette fresh off a spin on Elton John’s Rocket Hour and Experiment debuted on BBC Radio 1 Future Pop, EMMMA is, predictably, in the middle of twelve-hour rehearsal days and couldn’t be happier about it.
You’re on the road with Suki Waterhouse right now and doing twelve-hour days. What’s the headspace like?
We are so deep in prep right now. It’s just been five days a week, twelve-hour days, and I’m in the rehearsal studio, same same same. It’s crazy. But it’s going great, and I’m really happy to be here. I’m learning how to manage full, high-intensity stress. But I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.
You’ve already been on stage for crowds this size, just not as the artist — you were out in Asia with Sasha Alex Sloan’s band. Did that change how you’re approaching this?
The biggest takeaway was: I know what this capacity venue looks and feels like from the stage already. I’ve been on stage for 5000 plus cap rooms. Not necessarily as the artist, but I know how it feels; I know what it looks like. It sounds silly, but it’s massively helpful for my brain. And also, she was such a champ. She was so chill, so calm, so kind to her fans even when things went wrong technically. She was always really composed, and nobody cared about any weird technicalities. She was really inspirational in that way.
You do that too though – the handwritten postcards, the DMs. Is that something you took from watching her or is that just who you are?
That’s separate, honestly; I came up with that with my team. It’s vastly cost-effective to care, and it’s a lot more personal. I now know a lot of my — I’m not gonna say fans, but followers — by name and by face. I DM them all the time. I’ll write the postcard, and they’ll know I took my time to write it. It feels like I’m connecting with someone on a one-on-one level versus ‘here’s a t-shirt’. I love a t-shirt but, you know, it’s a bit more personal.
Your first EP got Phoebe Bridgers and Boygenius comparisons — quieter, more confessional. Wednesday’s Child was a much bigger swing. What changed? Was it the songs or was it you?
It was definitely me. I wrote Secondary Character as a different project entirely. I made the ‘EMMMA’ project — the project that this is now — after I wrote that EP. I had a different project for many years, and I felt like it wasn’t growing with me, like it didn’t represent who I was as I got older. Wednesday’s Child was the first EP I put out that I 100% backed myself on as the evolved project. I think that’s what changed the most — my confidence in this new path. Even the title Secondary Character, I felt secondary. I felt like I wasn’t taking charge of what my life was. And that was not the evolved Emma that I’m now feeling a lot more confident in.
Does the name change tie into that as well? Going from Emma Charles to just EMMMA?
Yeah. I allowed myself, with this change, the ability to be more bold and confident. I mean, one of the songs I wrote was literally called Playing It Safe because I was so self-aware that I was doing everything really safely. I’m not saying I’m crazy now, but I’ve definitely allowed myself the room to grow and explore a bit more. Whereas before I was limiting myself. Maybe it was a mental thing. But this project is growing with me and allowing me to be a louder, more unapologetic version of my artistry. And I can wear anything I want, and I can say anything I want, and it just works. It’s been so much fun.
You’re London-based now. Has settling here changed what you write about?
100%. A lot of what I was writing about before I made the move was feeling stuck, feeling like I couldn’t leave, or being excited to start a new chapter. And now the ideas I have are a lot more based around my romantic experiences and the woes of being single. It brings up a lot of emotions. You get a lot of experiences with that, a lot of universal feelings. So, it’s more about that now.
Russian Roulette is about walking into a relationship knowing exactly how it’s going to end and stepping in anyway. Why tell that story instead of a more straightforward heartbreak song?
I’ve not had the obvious. I can’t write about something I’ve not experienced. A lot of what I’ve had has been like ‘I’m gonna put myself in this situation, maybe I’ll get a good song out of it, maybe I’ll get heartbroken, but I’m probably gonna get heartbroken’. We’ll see, like, why not both? It makes for more fun songs. I literally went into that situation being like, well, I’ll write a song about it, and it’ll be truthful and honest. I don’t have anything obvious in my experience.
Do you recognise the pattern now? Like, would you walk into that again?
I recognise the pattern. I’m not saying it’s never gonna happen again. But I don’t actively put myself in situations where I know it’s not going to be positive anymore. 99% since then have ended up not working out for me, and I don’t go willingly anymore. So, there’s that. I’m growing in that one.
Experiment is about realising you were someone’s test run. Was there a moment where you clocked it in real time, or did you only understand it looking back?
It was the looking back — it was actually the same situation both songs are about. I knew going into it that it wasn’t going to be good, but it was more looking back and realising I was the test subject. It was very cathartic to write about. I’ll write about it, they’ll stay in the song, and then I can move along with my life. I’m not glad I was someone’s test run. But it gave me a lot to think about, and each experience I have, I learn more about myself. Maybe I can help someone else going through something similar.
The visuals — the swords, the bird cages. How much of that imagery is yours versus your collaborators?
I go into the creative sessions with a mood in mind. It would be too literal to base a video around the actual situation, and there are privacy reasons. So, I’ll go in with a mood, and we’ll brainstorm together how we think the colours of the song should be and what emotion the video should portray. For Russian Roulette I was like, ‘okay, I want to just — I’m gonna choose my words here — mess up a man’. So, I’m like, how would we do that in a really cool, tasteful, on-brand way? And for Experiment, I felt manic and crazy and angry and trapped, and that’s how we came up with the bird. It’s feelings first. That’s all I bring. The execution is a team effort.
What’s the main difference between this album and the EPs?
I’m apologising less. I’ve been apologising a lot, and I am so sick of it, and I’m done. Sorry for being loud, sorry for feeling this way. For my artistry, I’m just done apologising. I only want to care about what I want to make versus what other people’s expectations of me are. I’ve chosen these songs 100% based on what I want to release and what I want to say. Artistry is for the artist who’s making it, and then, in turn, it can bring an audience in and become a shared experience but, if that doesn’t back the choices, it’s not the most genuine it could be. So, I’ve cut a few songs and just been like, ‘No. I don’t want to say that’.
BBC Radio picked up Honey pretty early. Does that kind of momentum ever pressure you to keep delivering the same thing?
I’ve predetermined everything. Based on a reaction from one song, I’m still going to put out the album that I want to put out. With the TikTok generation and immediate gratification, if one song does well, go make ten more that sound like that. I don’t do that. I know that if Honey did well, maybe I should probably release another song like Honey. But I didn’t do that. People take what they take from a record. If it doesn’t resonate with you, let it go. It will with some people. Take what resonates, leave what doesn’t.
Does the album tell a story from start to finish or is it more just an honest account of where you’ve been?
It’s not cohesive, but it’s how I was feeling. It’s 100% my unfiltered feelings, all smushed into one album. I love concept albums, and I’d love to do one someday. But this is my two years of experience, the songs I felt most proud of. The storyline is me moving to a new place; experiencing new things. But it’s not like ‘I started here and I ended here’. It’s just ‘here you go’.
If Wednesday’s Child ended full of woe, where does this one land?
There’s a hopefulness. A lot of the songs are a bit more hopeful. It still gets sad, but generally it’s more positive. The common thread is [that] this is a new experience, and having weird experiences as an adult is strange. Nobody gives you the tools for that. You’re not taught in school how to adult and process your emotions. I’m just learning. And I think I’m okay with learning. That’s a good thing.
What’s something nobody ever asks you about that you’d actually like to talk about?
Oh yeah! I have a very specific answer. I am a crazy collector of perfumes and fragrance. One day I want to make my own house inspired by my music, either as merch or as a brand thing. I have 30-plus bottles, and I also have a Google spreadsheet where each fragrance is documented by name, house, and how I feel about it. I’ll write down my notes, everything organised alphabetically. It’s the only Type A thing I do. People have walked in on me doing my testing and writing things down, and they’re just like ‘What is happening right now?’ But it’s like a wardrobe, it’s like clothes. They add to the vibe. If it’s sunny outside but cold, what do you wear? Same thing. I could talk about it for ages.
Based on that, I have to ask: if you had to put a scent to this album, what would it be?
That one’s harder. My signature right now is Pas Ce Soir by a French brand called BDK Parfums. It means ‘not tonight’ in French, which I love. It’s so good and so beautiful. But I have so many that I love for different reasons and they’re all so different depending on the day, the mood, the weather. It really is like a whole wardrobe. Next time, we’ll talk about that the whole time.
And I have no doubt she means it. But, for now, the perfume conversation can wait. There’s a US tour to finish, a run across Europe with MUNA still to come and a debut album that, going by everything she’s just said, sounds like the work of someone who’s finally stopped holding back.
